We rode kind of late, so this is the only picture I got. The rest were too blurry. All I have to say about Rocky is that he was a barn sour butt!! Chrome on the other hand did a really good job. He was very forward and happy to be out. We went the same direction as last time. When we got to the where we turned around before I stopped to let Rocky catch up. Rocky was balking and trying to turn around. Being very unpleasant. Then we kept going, but when we got near the horses pastured on that part of the road, both horses got excited. Rocky started acting up which caused Chrome to get excited (but he didn't do much, just flagged his tail and danced in place a bit). A truck was coming and stopped because we were in the middle of the road. The pastured horses took that opportunity to bolt and Rocky came unglued. We finally just dismounted because it was too dangerous with traffic.
We walked about a tenth of a mile back toward home and I got back on Chrome. We were very disappointed in Rocky, so when we got back to the driveway we kept going. We didn't want him to be rewarded for bad behavior any more than he already was (hubby getting off-he couldn't get back on because the saddle rolls if you don't use a mounting block). We went up and down in front of the driveway, passing it multiple times. Our total distance on the road was 1.61 miles.
When we got back to the house Chrome started being a butt about wanting to go back to the car to untack because that's where Rocky was. He was balking and trying to turn around. That really irritated me because it was bad enough one horse was being that way. Chrome wasn't being nearly as insistent or ugly about it, but I wasn't going to let it slide. I kept walking him to my car, turning around and walking away. He finally stopped balking, but he was walking really slow going away, so I was making him trot, but even then he was hesitating. I finally broke a branch (more like a twig) off a tree and used it to encourage him forward. It was a tiny, very flimsy stick and I only had to pop him with it twice before he started listening to gentle tickles of the stick lol. I finally had him walking the same speed no matter what direction we were going and I called it good.
After putting Chrome up I worked on teaching Rocky to longe (not sure if he's ever done it). I didn't want Rocky to think he was getting out of work by being a brat. He definitely needs more work on longeing. He circled decently, but he was dragging me in the direction he wanted to go. I'm glad I wore gloves. I need to set my round pen back up so he has boundaries. If you guys were teaching a strong, grown horse to longe would you use a halter in a round pen or try teaching it with a bit?? I'm leaning toward halter in a round pen. I don't think I've ever worked with a horse who dragged me before. Or if I did, I don't remember it. I think I need to back up a few steps and work on teaching Rocky to give to pressure on the halter. He was trained to neck rein, so he does not give to a bit or halter very well at all (I've done a little lateral flexion, but had to quit because of my shoulder... he's VERY heavy and difficult to flex). I'm seriously thinking he needs to be trained as if he were an untouched, untrained horse. I can see so many basic steps that were skipped in his training!!
So all in all it was a good ride for me. I enjoyed Chrome out on the road, even though he was a turd at home, but he worked through that. Watching how resistant Rocky is makes me realize how well trained and willing Chrome is, even on a bad day... I don't want to be down on Rocky, but I also don't want to pretend he was an angel. I just hope I can get him over this because I don't want hubby to dislike riding with me!
Anyway it's late and I'm rambling. I'm going to go to bed. Night!
P.S. I almost forgot! The new job is going fantastic. I had my second PT appointment which was good and I haven't had any nerve pain in my neck or shoulder in over a week! :D
P.P.S. The only time Chrome spooked was when a bird flew up next to us. It was a small spook. He was fine with the dog pack. He was decent with the horses, other than the flagged tail and prancing. He's a good boy.
ETA: I forgot to mention I rode Chrome 57 minutes minus the five or so minutes of walking during the ride.
Sorry that Rocky was such a struggle. You do need to set up a round pen, because I'm afraid he might re-injure your neck and shoulder if he drags you off. I've never lunged with a bit in the horse's mouth, though I have done ground driving from behind with a bit in their mouths. When lunging I just attached a long line to either the side or bottom of a halter. I actually haven't had to use a long line at all in years because they all know the cues now, so it's more at liberty stuff. In fact I haven't even had to use a long whip recently. I use vocal commands and my body language, but that's because I've had a lot of time to work with them in the round pen. It would be so nice if horses didn't backslide in their training each time we are unable to work with them.
ReplyDeleteGood point about my neck and shoulder. It didn't hurt at the time, but I'm a bit sore today. It's not nerve pain though, so hopefully he didn't mess anything up. We are going to set the round pen back up today.
DeleteIt's really frustrating working with a horse that has been taught wrong or who is missing some foundation training. I've tried to ignore it, but it looks like I'm just going to have to go back to basics with him. I just got Chrome past all the basics, so it's annoying to have to go back to them, but it's unfair to Rocky and hubby to not. Rocky doesn't understand our rules and expectations, so I have to teach him instead of getting irritated with him. I'll update again today and let you know how he does. :)
This is not meant to be insulting so I hope you won't be upset - but is your hubby a rider? You know what I mean, a rider vs a passenger?
ReplyDeleteWhen I bought my husband his first horse, he was definitely a passenger! He believed that, since he is extremely athletic, he could naturally ride. I mean, how hard is it, right? (Serious tongue in cheek.)
When I would hear hubby scold his horse in a disappointed voice (as if that would do any good) it literally made me cringe. I could ride his horse & he was completely different with me - responsive, willing, forward. But give him back to the passenger & that very smart horse knew darn well he could bamboozle the guy into calling it a 'good ride'... trailing along behind me at a distance. *shrug*
I did try to coach my husband somewhat, but he really didn't make a lot of progress (wrong teacher). It wasn't until my man went & took some actual lessons from a good pro-trainer/instructor that he became more comfortable & finally made the leap from passenger to Rider.
It was like a light bulb for him; once the switch flipped & he finally understood the difference, riding became joyful for him as it is to me & we have put in several thousand miles in the saddles together over the years.
I'm not insulted, but yes my hubby is a rider. Rocky acts the exact same way with me (or worse because I'm nervous and hubby isn't). Rocky has an.... interesting history... he belonged to my friend's ex-hubby S. S was arrogant and possessive. He bullied horses, but he also intentionally taught Rocky to run away with people because he wanted other people to be too afraid to ride him. On purpose! The only way to stop him was to be a big, strong, macho man who could wrestle him to a stop with brute strength.... (in a mechanical hack no less)! S is an idiot. I was aware of Rocky's bolting issues before I got him because I've ridden him off and on for years (and he's even bolted with me before). So on top of incorrect/lack of basics training Rocky was also left in a pasture for two or three years on 100 acres with a huge herd of other horses (that bullied him) with no handling, so he's very rusty and used to doing whatever he wants. As soon as he left the place where he was bullied and came here he started bullying Chrome and was very food aggressive. We got him over the food aggression and Chrome has learned to stay out of his way (they are not friends though). So Rocky has a LOT of issues. I knew of some of them, but I didn't realize how bad it was. It's a whole different ball game since he turned into a dominant horse when he moved here. He was so beat down and submissive at the old place that he wasn't that hard to handle. He really is a good horse, he just has a lot of holes in his training that I wasn't totally aware of. I'm going to work on that, now that I'm aware of them.
DeleteHubby grew up riding and training horses and mules on a huge ranch. He's been on multi day trail rides with over a 100 horses. He definitely knows what he's doing. The problem is that he has a bad back and a bad shoulder, so he can't do what he used to do. So it's not that he's not a rider, he's just limited and he's out of shape and rusty as well because he couldn't ride at all for years after the original back injury (or do much else to be honest).
I appreciate your comment and advice. I just really think a lot of Rocky's problems are a lack of training, incorrect training and the bullying he got from people and horses before he came here. I was shocked to find out he was terrified of the whip when I longed him yesterday.
By the way he was an angel today. I'm going to do a post in a minute with an update. :) Thanks again!
Knowing all that, I have every confidence that you guys will sort out a good horse who's just playing at being bad (as he was taught to do originally, by an asshat).
DeleteI would go for the roundpen/halter combo. Using a bit on a horse that pulls seems like it would hurt the horse. I think teaching Rocky to yield to pressure on the halter (lots of pressure and release) is the best course of action. Gambler is a bolter, and I don't have an arena. Thankfully, he is sensitive to pressure, so as soon as the rope tightens he stops and faces me.
ReplyDeleteYeah that's kind of what I was thinking too... I would hate to hurt his mouth if he bolted into the bit. I'm definitely going to set up the round pen soon. I didn't have time to today, so I didn't work on longeing today.
DeleteHalter is the way to go, change how your lunge line is hooked up. Either slide it through the ring to the inside and drape it over his head and hook to the outside so it pulls on his poll when he pulls you or slide through the inside ring and clip to the surcingle (like Andrea does with O) so that if he pulls, he is pulling on himself and will slow himself down. Work on this at the walk and trot and you shouldn't need a round pen :D
ReplyDeleteMaking them work harder when you return from a ride when they are bad is a very good training exercise. They stop wanting to hurry back to the barn because (it seems) every time they get back they are going to work 3x harder.
I thought I mentioned it in the post, but I may not have. I eventually looped the rope around his nose and through the other side. I didn't realize the snap was broken and hubby had tied the rope to the halter, so that made it hard to configure things, but I will replace the snap and try some of these. I actually did consider using the method Andrea does (only with the saddle he was wearing instead of a surcingle), but I'd heard if they don't understand it that they can get tangled up and in a wreck... is that true? As stiff as he is I doubt he would start circling, but I guess it could happen...
DeleteI am definitely going to work his butt off every ride he acts like that! There was absolutely no excuse for how he was behaving.
I agree 100% with Appydoesdressage.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget clicker training! Even if you only use it to reinforce going away from home in a mannerly way, it could mean all the difference between a willing horse and one that you have trouble trusting. I know a woman whose horse never walked quietly towards home. She tried everything she could think of--and nothing worked. This went on for years. I suggested clicker training, and within a month her horse decided walking home with a loose rein was the way to go.
Glad you are feeling better.
I know I really need to do some more clicker training with him... I don't know why I haven't. I do want him to realize there are consequences though because I don't think he was ever taught that there are any for when he acts up... I know that isn't positive reinforcement, but when he already has such ingrained bad habits I think it may be necessary. I will definitely do some clicker with him too though, so that he knows the right thing to do, but he will still have to deal with the consequences if he chooses to be so bad.
DeleteThank you!!